Silencing the Lambs – eBay Cuts Voices Roster
26 August 2009
EventHorizon1984
It’s that time of year when rosters get cut in professional Football. In that same vein eBay has taken to slashing it’s eBay Voices lineup from 130 to 100.
According to an AuctionBytes article “Is eBay Phasing out ‘Voices’ Focus-Group Program?“, the person “responsible for Voices, eBay Senior Manager of Seller Development “responsible for Voices” Garnor Morantes said:
Incidentally, detouring a bit. If you’re thinking “focus group??”, here’s something we pulled (sort of) at random:
- “The technique was developed after World War II”
- “A focus group could be defined as a group of interacting individuals having some common interest or characteristics, brought together by a moderator, who uses the group and its interaction as a way to gain information about a specific or focused issue.”
- “A focus group is typically 7-10 people who are unfamiliar with each other. These participants are selected because they have certain characteristics in common that relate to the topic of the focus group. The moderator or interviewer creates a permissive and nurturing environment that encourages different perceptions and points of view, without pressuring participants to vote, plan or reach consensus”
Unfortunately eBay doesn’t quite get how not to use focus groups:
- “because focus groups are usually made up of a very small number of people who voluntarily participate, you cannot assume that their views and perceptions represent those of other groups that might have slightly different characteristics. They are not “random samples”.
And someone is ignoring the disadvantages:
- “Small numbers and convenience sampling severely limit ability to generalize to larger populations”
- “Moderator may knowingly or unknowingly bias results by providing cues about what types of responses are desirable”
- “Results may be biased by presence of a very dominant or opinionated member”
“I do not think it means what you think it means.”
Indigo Montoya, The Princess Bride (1987)
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This roster cut has produced some consternation from eBay Voices members.
For example eBay perennial favorite PowerSeller Marty (clact (5147)) made his usual flurry of correct and incorrect statements. Or as he described other people doing the same thing, “all the BULL$&*@ in these comments“. Such as:
- “No other major company has a program like Voices in place to keep them on track and there is no doubt in my mind that at some point this company will be moving in the right direction.”
This individual should consider that they’re wrong on two counts. According to eBay CEO John Donahoe eBay is moving in the right direction. And about that focus groups myth? Check out this old interesting article.
Business Week
Shoot The Focus Group
14 November 2005
- “Exasperation with focus groups, while not universal, is growing as companies look for better ways to get inside consumers’ heads”
- “Perhaps the most common complaint about focus groups is that consumers are not honest in front of other people.”
- “”Consumers aren’t dishonest, it’s that most people don’t listen the right way.” On the other hand, maybe consumers can be heard more clearly when nobody is watching.”
As you might expect, the reaction of eBay Voices members posting comments to the AuctionBytes article “eBay Silences Founding ‘Voices’ Members” varied. Some of the posts read:
- by: Randy
- Thu Aug 20 02:29:54 2009
Looks I was smart to leave when I did last year …. Randy (Former) Voices 3 Member.
- by: What Me Worry
- Thu Aug 20 13:44:57 2009
Heck this was coming…I saw it when I was in the program.
When Voices was founded, it’s members were actually helpful to the employees in forming programs.
The past several years, many members felt that they were nothing more than “lab rats” as ebay measured reactions to already made decisions.
When the administrator of the program, Garnor Morantes, has to remind members to be positive about their comments and admit that he’s hesitant about opening up the comments for all employees to view…they do not want to hear what they need to know…they want to hear what they want to hear…
Signed…former Voices member
- by: Nancy Leckron
- Thu Aug 20 14:30:18 2009
I am one of the effected Voices member’s that was retired. I value the time I spent giving my opinion on a varity of topics. Remember people, we are real live human beings. I gave my time for the greater good of the entire eBay Community. Yes, I am a Proud Former Voices Member!
- by: Still a Voice
- Thu Aug 20 15:38:06 2009
I am saddened by this decision, but feel the need to reply to a couple comments made here. I remain in the program, but have always been a small buyer/seller, and in fact, am currently at my lowest level ever, having only listed less than 10 items in the last six months. Also, I am definitely not an eBay cheerleader. I am disappointed in the direction eBay seems to be going. As long as I am Still a Voice, I will remain an advocate for the small seller! I don’t think the program has the influence it once did, but I DO think it continues to have merit.
Those who are being removed this week will be sorely missed. Those who were involuntarily removed in the past (or resigned under obvious pressure to do so), not so much.
- by: former_Voice
- Thu Aug 20 15:45:59 2009
I enjoyed my time in Voices. There was true give-and-take, and eBay really was interested in what we had to say. That doesn’t mean that everyone got what they wanted, and any Voices member who thought the group had any real power is just kidding themselves. However, I can say that there were several instances of ”done deals” not happening or being altered, due, in part, to the responses of Voices members.
eBay is a business. It is not evil. I don’t believe that JD is evil. Somehow someone got the idea that eBay would care more about the community than its own financial health. That will never happen.
Grow up. If it works for you, fine; if not, then shut up and move on. Be responsible for your own situation and stop blaming someone else.
- by: brecklundin
- Fri Aug 21 03:18:41 2009
For those who feel voices members were sycophants and yes men sorts you are the exact reason some of us left eBay. I was an active member of the user boards helping 1000s of members at the drop of a hat in order to make smaller sellers find their way through eBay. I was a member of what might have been the most influential and effective Voices group. I know that is saying a lot but we were note even close to “yes men/women” and at that time eBay truly listened to us.
We each gave up years of our time and advice I personally would have charged clients tens of thousands of dollars for…all to HELP my fellow sellers. But we were met with petty jealously from the more unbalanced eBay’ers who always knew better yet accomplished nothing.
I finally left when there was too much of a difference of opinion between myself and one individual who was running the program.
I will tell you I gave them the Health Insurance thing for Power Sellers and argued that they were asking sellers to commit themselves full time to selling and eBay had the resources to help organize a group insurance program. eBay LOVED the idea…unfortunately the INSURANCE INDUSTRY refused to come up with a real health insurance program. Still the options which came the ashes of a well intentioned program, which eBay genuinely put a LOT of man hours into trying to develop, but what rose was at least a very decent Rx discount program that saves me over $400/mo on medications and even more if I was willing to take some of the more dangerous meds to help slow down the progression of my primary health issue…Meg overstated the scope of the program at eBay Live 1 but at the time she was unaware of the final denial from the insurance carriers…still there is value in the program. I take pride in knowing I was a motivating voice behind something to potentially help millions of people save even more millions on many aspects of their health care needs.
Another personal feature of the site that was exclusively mine and I gave it to the lead programmer free because I was never going to be able to develop feature on a site as my serious programming days were behind me and I had a parent who needed me as her caregiver. And that feature is the Best Offer, I designed it, talked to Mark about it and eBay made a few changes but developed one of the most used features on the site…and no I never was paid or asked for compensation. But eBay added it after my disagreement with the then coordinator of Voices…and it was over something very stupid on my part but I am a stubborn bastard when I am in the mood…and boy was I in the mood…hehehe…
We came up with the idea of annual convention type events moved around the country…this because eBay Live. It would have worked had eBay held the community together with real mods rather than farming it all out…big error on their part…
You also have no idea who many ideas we stopped cold in their tracks during conference calls. You should have been a fly one the wall when we gave a top to bottom dressing-down to UPS VP’s when they were trying to gain exclusive access to eBay sellers of all other carriers. Sellers in antiques and collectibles can tell you that UPS might be the single worst carrier in terms of delivery, obtaining signatures as paid for (drives can just drop boxes even if a sig is required when the area is designated as a drop and go area…this would destroy the needed signature for PP Seller Protection.) We pointed out that there was no such thing as a one size fits all.
We were strongly influential in getting sellers to be required in revealing all fees in their listings. Shipping, handling and insurance. Our compromise was in lieu of limits which are impractical because a seller in NY has higher staff overhead than one on small town USA. So, our suggestion was a compromise (eBay was against revealing or limiting…) but we pushed and argued very cogently for simple declaration of any fees. before us there was no rule and sellers often raised fees if items sold under value.
We fought with PayPal when they tried to take away the 1.5% cash back for using the PP Debit card…they wanted to eliminate ALL cashback programs…I for one told PayPal directly that should they remove that program I would not use their service…I am no large seller, but I had an ace in the hole as did every member of our group, we had the ear of the community on the eBay Boards, each of us in a different board. While we alone might not have saved the program, we planted the seed of doubt that cutting the program would potentially wreck eBay’s recently acquired PayPal. Again earning millions of funds for millions of sellers…but we were “yes men/women”.
I am sure there will be those who know exactly who I am from my comments…and those people will also know I honest to a fault…and I take crap from nobody, and every member of our group was the same way, each in their own way. Two of us were more vocal but the others were just as resolute unwilling to compromise beyond a certain point where sellers and/or buyers would be harmed.
I have the utmost respect for my fellow members in our Voices group…we worked hard for everyone of us, we did nothing in a self serving fashion…but there were those out there who felt because we were legally bound to not disclose these things we were ‘assimilated’. I personally put my eBay account at risk in standing up for what I though was right…yet I say cowards with posting ID’s bitching like 8yr old school girls about us, eBay and the lack of decent tinfoil for their hats.
I guess you can say I stopped caring. I stopped caring about eBay as a company as well as my fellow eBay’ers…now a decade later, I care only for my buyers and give them the best of the best in service and respect. Something the whiners have not clue about…
I have a personal list of eBay execs who I have the utmost respect for…the believed in the small community the level playing field and all the things which eBay was…but unfortunately, they lost the battle.
I will point out two….Maynard Webb and Bill Cobb. Yeah, many of the whiners thing those two were just horrible people…having actually looked them in the eye, spent hours in person with them and one the phones, they are honest and decent people. There are easily 50-100 people at eBay I still remember that had the best intentions. Sadly, the decisions from the very top, did some serious damage. I also know the people who believed in the community, they either gave up hope to feed their families or left eBay.
After our eBay group basically the program was changed and significantly watered down. Still that does not mean the members were in it just for themselves and to say they were part of eBay…those sorts were actually weeded out pretty early.
No matter what the antagonists say, I know what I did personally and what my group did as a whole…and we did GOOD.
The single regret I had was we were unable to convince eBay to move eBay Live Listings out of the core or at least into their own sub area in each category. but eventually we were proven right because many remained vocal and kept pointing out the ethically questionable aspects of Live Auction format and their mixing in with regular listings.
I know this was not well written but I needed to express that in our early groups there were a couple special teams (we really became a team and ours was as cohesive a team as I have ever worked with, and we never knew each other before Voices, well I knew one member of my group and she was one of the stellar members who was in it for us ALL not herself…
I also have bent, but likely not broken my NDA but after a decade since I signed it, I feel things have changed enough to live with someone “peeing in the cheerios” a bit in order to set a few things straight.
I know the anger will come back..it always does, but if you examine the eBay ID’s of those people you will find proof of their lack of stability revealed in how they deal with customers.
Ina knows me and knows who I am…and I know w/o her watching eBay for us, we would be caught even more off guard…
Mostly anonymous posts are not truly satisfying, and at this juncture all three of you* may be wondering who are these eBay Voices. While it’s possible to piece together a list (as we choose to understand it), that’s never happening here. Other than the basic privacy issues involved, that would be just plain rude.
* We jest. It’s really four.
For brevity we will stick to speaking of a few members made openly public by eBay. In April 2003.
eBay’s “Voices” program…
by Daphne, eBay Staff Member
April 2003
According to The Chatter article since 1999, “Several times a year, eight to ten members are flown to eBay’s corporate office in San Jose, California. They are chosen from all levels of eBay’s buying and selling community — from Shooting Stars and PowerSellers, to mom-and-pop sellers, and all levels of buyers.” Followed by, ” regular conference calls and email discussions”.
The writer goes on to say, “Participants sign non-disclosure agreements” and “This confidentiality makes Voices groups a powerful tool”. Then Daphne discloses three names.
It’s definitely interesting about what became of these three eBay Voices members.
- eBay’s “Voices” program…
- “drexelantiques, who attended Voices said this about his experience: “eBay had set up a wonderful program. Very informative. I hadn’t expected eBay to really listen to the Voices participants, but they did. eBay staff was very concerned with users’ opinions. Participants’ questions were answered fully. The eBay staff were very frank in discussing issues. The staff at eBay that we had a chance to talk to were among the nicest group of folks I have met in a long time. We were treated very well. ….eBay staff also alleviated some of my concerns over the direction eBay was taking.”"
Today seller DrexelAntiques (2175) (member since Nov-12-98) remains an active buyer on eBay, but their last eBay sale feedback was August 29 2003. They have a brick and mortar store.
- eBay’s “Voices” program…
- “gatorpack wrote: “The most important thing I took away from the experience was the realization that everyone I met at eBay was genuinely sincere in their efforts to carry on as much of Pierre’s founding philosophies as possible, yet pragmatically deal with all the twists, turns and complexities the beast was spinning off. In 1995, ‘96, ‘97 or ‘98, who could have possibly imagined what was to come. If anything, it reinforced, rather than changed, our perceptions and opinions of eBay. I know exactly what it’s like to work in an environment where you are constantly making up things as you go along.”"
Today seller Gatorpack (32761) (member since Jan-22-99) neither buys nor sells on this account. The account remains active with an impressive positive feedback of 32,761. Their last eBay sale feedback is dated October 12 2007. They’re currently selling online at Gatorpack.com.
- eBay’s “Voices” program…
- “giraffer had this to say: “Really I expected to hear a sales pitch, or as we often give our customers where I work…the mission statement pitch. And never expected anyone would listen to us and really show that they cared about the community and our problems. I was impressed to have vice presidents sitting down and talking with us in such an informal manner. I was impressed with how friendly everyone was and how they made me feel important and glad to have me there. What did I take away? That everyone at eBay cares and will continue to do their best to make the site work for the community. That they are real people, not just this unknown entity. I’m so proud of this program and eBay for having it that I proudly display the Voices logo on my ME page and my business card.”"
Today Giraffer (3020) (member since Jan-19-99) is a “Retired Member eBay’s Voice of the Community 10″. By eBay Corporate standards they are a small seller. The account remains active in sales and purchases. Giraffer is an active poster on the eBay Discussion Boards. Giraffer is as exuberant about eBay now as she was in 2003.
“any Voices member who thought the group had any real power is just kidding themselves”
former_voice
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With this small sample showing two out of three eBay Voices sellers gone from eBay, we have to wonder how relevant is eBay Voices to the participants? And do 100 eBay Voices have any relevance to the millions of eBay buyers and the 50+ million active sellers on eBay?
Or is eBay Voices all ‘baaaaa’ humbug.
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“You will let me know when those lambs stop screaming, won’t you?”
Hannibal Lecter MD, Silence of the Lambs (1991)
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“Come to think of it”, eBay Lifted the Heineken Advertising Slogan
Posted 2 November 2009 by eventhorizon1984Categories: Business, Commentary, Legal, eBay
Tags: eBay, AuctionBytes, Heineken, Gerard Adriaan Heineken, 1864, Woods_Elf, Come to think of it, brewery, The New York Times, Philip H. Dougherty, Mal MacDougal
“Come to think of it”, eBay Lifted the Heineken Advertising Slogan
2 November 2009
EventHorizon1984
It’s been a long time since we’ve heard the phrase “Come to think of it”. Not the “new” eBay ads flooding the market with “Come to think of it, eBay.” But the Heineken slogan noted by Lucious Van Der Kreig on Auctionbytes.”
“Come to think of it,
I’ll have a Heineken.”
Founded in 1864 by Gerard Adriaan Heineken, Heineken is “Europe’s largest brewery.”
Perhaps ironically you can find this 1986 color advertisement, “COME TO THINK OF IT ~ I’LL HAVE A HEINEKEN! 1986 AD” for sale by seller Woods_Elf on eBay.
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“If there is something to steal, I steal it.”
Pablo Picasso
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Addendum
4 November 2009
A little extra digging turned up this gem.
The rest of the very very short article states the initial advertising budget was $12 million. Adjusted for inflation that would be about $28 million now.
One wonders how much eBay spent to copy an existing successful advertisement.
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Addendum
6 November 2009
Yes, at this point we’re merely having fun. After all eBay and it’s compensated representatives are now spinning “Come to think of it” is a common idiom and essentially free for the taking.
Anyone know the name Mal MacDougall?
Here’s to you Mr. Mal “Come to think of it, I’ll have a Heineken” MacDougall.
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“I’m never surprised when the gods of advertising remind me once again that there is nothing permanent in the business but change.“
Mal MacDougall
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